Skip to main content

Zen and the Art of Trading

Came across this "lost" interview excerpt with an unnamed trader from Jack Schwager's New Market Wizards and I'd like to share it with you here. 

As Schwager explains in the intro to his "Zen and the Art of Trading" chapter, this wide-ranging, and rather philosophical, interview with a top trader had to be scrapped on fears it would alter the trader's image with his firm's corporate clients. 

Schwager asked this trader for permission to anonymously publish one interview excerpt, which he found particularly insightful. Here's a sample:  

"...I still don't understand your trading method. How could you make these huge sums of money by just watching the screen?

There was no system to it. It was nothing more than, "I think the market is going up, so I'm going to buy." "It's gone up enough, so I'm going to sell." It was completely impulsive. I didn't sit down and formulate any trading plan. I don't know where the intuition comes from, and there are times when it goes away.

How do you recognize when it goes away? 

When I'm wrong three times in a row, I call time out. Then I paper trade for a while.

For how long do you paper trade? 

Until I think I'm in sync with the market again. Every market has a rhythm, and our job as traders is to get in sync with that rhythm. I'm not really trading when I'm doing those trades. There's trading being done, but I'm not doing it.

What do you mean you're not doing it? 

There's buying and selling going on, but it's just going through me. It's like my personality and ego are not there. I don't even get a sense of satisfaction on these trades. It's absolutely that objective. Did you ever read Zen and the Art of Archery?..."

Let's note that the unnamed trader's view of zen in trading was partially informed by his reading of Herrigel's Zen in the Art of Archery. This leads me to the following thoughts and questions.

Some reviewers on Amazon have noted that Herrigel's understanding of zen and his tutelage in archery were rather muddled (for a variety of reasons). They went on to recommend reading Yamada Shoji's critique, "The Myth of Zen in the Art of Archery", along with Kyudo: The Essence and Practice of Japanese Archery for greater understanding of these topics. 

Kyudo Practice Japanese Archery book Onuma
Kyudo: The Essence and Practice of Japanese Archery

If Herrigel's pursuit of zen was fraught with misunderstanding, does this mean that some of the lessons drawn from his book are false? 

Was our mystery trader still able to connect with a Westerner's explanation of these topics, thereby fueling his own understanding? 

Can one really achieve a zen state of trading or being, and if so, did the unnamed trader somehow begin to approach this state, as described by his experience in the interview?

As a total (Western-born) outsider, I'll leave these questions open for you to ponder. 

Still, as this interview chapter is now 20 years old, I'd be interested to know more about the unnamed trader and the lessons he has learned in the intervening years. If nothing else, this brief and unique chapter of Schwager's book has certainly proven to be a catalyst for further reflection on the ideas of a "flow state" and trading/being. 

Related articles and posts

1. What makes a great trader? Managing risk.

2. "Know Thyself" - Richard Russell on identity

3. Inner Voice of Trading: Lesson on ego and risk.


Subscribe to Finance Trends by email or get new posts via RSS.  You can follow our real-time updates on Twitter and StockTwits.

Popular posts from this blog

Clean Money - John Rubino: Book review

Clean Money by John Rubino 274 pages. Hoboken, New Jersey John Wiley & Sons. 2009. 1st Edition. The bouyant stock market environment of the past several years is gone, and the financial wreckage of 2008 is still sharp in our minds as a new year starts to unfold. Given the recent across-the-board-declines in global stock markets (and most asset classes) that have left many investors shell-shocked, you might wonder if there is any good reason to consider the merits of a hot new investment theme, such as clean energy. However, we shouldn't be too hasty to write off all future stock investments. After all, the market declines of 2008 may continue into 2009, but they may also leave interesting investment opportunities in their wake. Which brings us to the subject of this review. John Rubino, author and editor of GreenStockInvesting.com , recently released a new book on renewable energy and clean-tech investing entitled, Clean Money: Picking Winners in the Green Tech Boom . In Clean ...

Slate profiles Victor Niederhoffer

Slate's recent profile of writer/speculator, Vic Niederhoffer has been getting some attention from traders and finance types in recent days. I thought we'd take a look at it here too, to offer up some possible educational value from Vic's experiences with trading and loss. Here's an excerpt from Slate's profile of Victor Niederhoffer : " I've enjoyed getting your e-mails. It sounds like you've thought a lot about being wrong. Well, the reason you contacted me, to call a spade a spade, is that I'm sort of infamous for having made a big, notorious, terrible error not once but twice in my market career. Let's talk about those errors. The first was your investment in the Thai baht, which pretty much wiped you out when the Thai stock market crashed in 1997. I made so many errors there it's pathetic. I made one of my favorite errors: "The mouse with one hole is quickly cornered." That is key. There are certain decisions you make in li...

Seth Klarman: Margin of Safety (pdf)

Welcome, readers! Signup for free email updates at the Finance Trends Newsletter . Update: PDF links removed due to DMCA notice. Please see our extensive Klarman book notes below. New visitors, please check the Finance Trends home page for all new posts. Here's something for anyone who has been trying to get a look at Seth Klarman's now famous, and out of print, 1991 investment book, Margin of Safety .  My knowledge of value investing is pretty much limited to what I've read in Ben Graham's The Intelligent Investor (the book which originally popularized the investment concept of a "Margin of Safety"), so check out the wisdom from Seth Klarman and other investing greats in our related posts below. You can also go straight to Ronald Redfield's Margin of Safety book notes .    Related posts: 1. Seth Klarman interviews and Margin of Safety notes     2. Seth Klarman: Lessons from 2008 3. Investing Lessons from Sir John Templeton 4. ...